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Lowe's Complaint - Lowe's flooring installation "policies" are out of control - Flooring Installation
Complaint
MADISON, TENNESSEE -- I used to love Lowe's. It's cheaper than Home Depot and they have better deals than just about everyone on appliances. Lately, Lowe's is turning me into a bitter, angry person.
Two months ago...
It started simply enough. My husband and I decided to take advantage of a 0 interest no payment promo and have laminate and ceramic flooring installed. We picked what we wanted on a Saturday and got with an employee about arranging a measurement. The employee assured us that a subcontractor would be calling no later than Tuesday to set a day. So, Thursday...We called Lowes. The sub finally called Friday and came to measure Saturday. He measured quick, quick and said nothing about how big the space was. Not very, so it didn't occur to us to be concerned. The guy said he'd fax the measurements to Lowe's and we could pick up our estimate by 5pm. So, about 5:30 we go to Lowe's to get our estimate. The kid who was working the flooring department didn't have a clue about anything. There was nothing on it in front of him and he said we'd have to wait until the department manager came back from his break. Which was at 6. We waited and the short of it is it wasn't there. And even if it was there it would take a few minutes to work up the estimate. The manager said he'd call when it was ready, which should be by Tuesday. So, Wednesday...We call. Not ready. Thursday, my husband stands in front of the guy with our unhappy baby and waits for an hour while he gets it together. We look it over and it seems pricey so we decide to do the laminate ourselves and let them do the ceramic. We do the contract on a Saturday and the Lowe's employee tells us that the sub will be calling us Monday and there's no reason why we can't get this done by Friday. Right...So, Tuesday...We call. On Thursday we finally hear from the sub. We set the install for Monday morning. We spent the weekend pulling up carpets and moving furniture to save money. Apparently, that's extra labor. So, Monday the guys come and this part is good. They do a good job. I figured it would be a 2 day job even though no one mentioned that, so I wasn't upset when they said they'd be back Tuesday to finish up. So, Tuesday they finish and it looks great! And this part's our fault...We changed our mind. Shocking, I know. The tile looked so good we decided to have them tile part of what we were planning to put laminate on. So, the phone call runaround begins again. One week later and after many games of "so and so will call you back", we had our estimate. Ready? $2600 for our tiny little dining room. We thought it couldn't be more than 100 sqft!! So what's that all about? We get a look at the estimate and it says that we are being charged labor for 150sqft plus other misc fees that no one could quite explain. That seemed like a ridiculous amount of space so we measured ourselves. We came up with approximately 102sqft. ?? We contacted Lowe's about this discrepancy and they said they'd send someone out to measure again. But they felt like the installer was just padding the labor square footage to allow for waste. She said that like it was ok. Does that sound dishonest to anyone else? Anyway the second guy comes to measure and I took a more active roll this time. I stood over him asking questions and had him remeasure the part that had already been tiled. We had a feeling those measurements were incorrect also. He measured the dining area and came up with a very reasonable 102, but would estimate up to 105. He measured the kitchen and laundry area and came up with 74sqft. We were charged labor on that for 100sqft. He explained the waste issue as this; he charges us labor for the measured footage and then orders supplies for that plus 10%. Very reasonable. Except, Lowe's was saying they were charging labor for the square footage including the extra supplies. Meaning they would charge labor for 115sqft instead of 105. The installer said if Lowe's was doing that, then they weren't getting the money. The subs had gotten in trouble for that before. The fax they send Lowe's clearly states what is chargeable as labor and what is ordered for supplies.
Now...
We've been in a 2 week runaround with the store manager trying to find out what their supposed to charge us for. He says it is store policy to charge the customers labor on square footage that doesn't exist. When I say that is dishonest, he says he has to talk to his area manager to find out if he can just charge for the actualy area. He's supposedly been trying to do that for a week now. Today, I told him he should just make a decision so we could go over his head if we needed to. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of Lowe's and I'm tired of my plywood floor. His decision is that the estimate stands, with the extra square footage. He insists that's store policy. It's store policy to take advantage of your customers? He says that's what the estimate is for. If you don't like it, you don't have to do it. Where on the estimate does it state you are being charged labor on extra squarefootage? That's store policy he says, no one has ever complained before. You don't think it's misleading and dishonest? Store policy, he says. I don't see how it's not cheating the customer to charge labor on square footage that doesn't exist. It makes sense to order extra supplies, they can always be returned. But labor?? That's just wrong.
So, now we still have a plywood floor that Lowe's will be putting tile on when hell freezes and we've contacted the regional VP about a refund on the 74/100 issue.
The moral of the story is: Lowe's "store policy" on flooring installations is misleading and dishonest.
Two months ago...
It started simply enough. My husband and I decided to take advantage of a 0 interest no payment promo and have laminate and ceramic flooring installed. We picked what we wanted on a Saturday and got with an employee about arranging a measurement. The employee assured us that a subcontractor would be calling no later than Tuesday to set a day. So, Thursday...We called Lowes. The sub finally called Friday and came to measure Saturday. He measured quick, quick and said nothing about how big the space was. Not very, so it didn't occur to us to be concerned. The guy said he'd fax the measurements to Lowe's and we could pick up our estimate by 5pm. So, about 5:30 we go to Lowe's to get our estimate. The kid who was working the flooring department didn't have a clue about anything. There was nothing on it in front of him and he said we'd have to wait until the department manager came back from his break. Which was at 6. We waited and the short of it is it wasn't there. And even if it was there it would take a few minutes to work up the estimate. The manager said he'd call when it was ready, which should be by Tuesday. So, Wednesday...We call. Not ready. Thursday, my husband stands in front of the guy with our unhappy baby and waits for an hour while he gets it together. We look it over and it seems pricey so we decide to do the laminate ourselves and let them do the ceramic. We do the contract on a Saturday and the Lowe's employee tells us that the sub will be calling us Monday and there's no reason why we can't get this done by Friday. Right...So, Tuesday...We call. On Thursday we finally hear from the sub. We set the install for Monday morning. We spent the weekend pulling up carpets and moving furniture to save money. Apparently, that's extra labor. So, Monday the guys come and this part is good. They do a good job. I figured it would be a 2 day job even though no one mentioned that, so I wasn't upset when they said they'd be back Tuesday to finish up. So, Tuesday they finish and it looks great! And this part's our fault...We changed our mind. Shocking, I know. The tile looked so good we decided to have them tile part of what we were planning to put laminate on. So, the phone call runaround begins again. One week later and after many games of "so and so will call you back", we had our estimate. Ready? $2600 for our tiny little dining room. We thought it couldn't be more than 100 sqft!! So what's that all about? We get a look at the estimate and it says that we are being charged labor for 150sqft plus other misc fees that no one could quite explain. That seemed like a ridiculous amount of space so we measured ourselves. We came up with approximately 102sqft. ?? We contacted Lowe's about this discrepancy and they said they'd send someone out to measure again. But they felt like the installer was just padding the labor square footage to allow for waste. She said that like it was ok. Does that sound dishonest to anyone else? Anyway the second guy comes to measure and I took a more active roll this time. I stood over him asking questions and had him remeasure the part that had already been tiled. We had a feeling those measurements were incorrect also. He measured the dining area and came up with a very reasonable 102, but would estimate up to 105. He measured the kitchen and laundry area and came up with 74sqft. We were charged labor on that for 100sqft. He explained the waste issue as this; he charges us labor for the measured footage and then orders supplies for that plus 10%. Very reasonable. Except, Lowe's was saying they were charging labor for the square footage including the extra supplies. Meaning they would charge labor for 115sqft instead of 105. The installer said if Lowe's was doing that, then they weren't getting the money. The subs had gotten in trouble for that before. The fax they send Lowe's clearly states what is chargeable as labor and what is ordered for supplies.
Now...
We've been in a 2 week runaround with the store manager trying to find out what their supposed to charge us for. He says it is store policy to charge the customers labor on square footage that doesn't exist. When I say that is dishonest, he says he has to talk to his area manager to find out if he can just charge for the actualy area. He's supposedly been trying to do that for a week now. Today, I told him he should just make a decision so we could go over his head if we needed to. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of Lowe's and I'm tired of my plywood floor. His decision is that the estimate stands, with the extra square footage. He insists that's store policy. It's store policy to take advantage of your customers? He says that's what the estimate is for. If you don't like it, you don't have to do it. Where on the estimate does it state you are being charged labor on extra squarefootage? That's store policy he says, no one has ever complained before. You don't think it's misleading and dishonest? Store policy, he says. I don't see how it's not cheating the customer to charge labor on square footage that doesn't exist. It makes sense to order extra supplies, they can always be returned. But labor?? That's just wrong.
So, now we still have a plywood floor that Lowe's will be putting tile on when hell freezes and we've contacted the regional VP about a refund on the 74/100 issue.
The moral of the story is: Lowe's "store policy" on flooring installations is misleading and dishonest.
Comments:
Posted by you r stupid on 2005-11-18:
First off Home Depot is usally cheaper then Lowes on just about everything in my area, but even if it weren't you could of always had HD match the price and they give you another 10 percent off because lowes was cheaper.
Posted by kingmd75 on 2005-11-19:
This is more than a matter of not liking the estimate they gave us. Part of it is done now, so it's a little late for an HD price match. The issue is we didn't reallize they were overestimating the square footage. We know now, so we have to get them to give us our money back. I would also be willing to bet that anyone who's had flooring done by Lowe's installers has been cheated. We spoke to a guy at the regional office who said that the stores are supposed to give you your money back on the labor when you return the extra supplies. The manager of the store in Madison, TN didn't know that and the estimates do not make it clear that the shown square footage is at least 10% higher than your actual square footage. So, I bet Lowe's owes money to lots of people who don't even reallize it.
Posted by 504lowes40 on 2006-03-30:
I am a flooring specialist. on carpet and vinyl installations you will be charged for labor on ALL materials handled including waste. Why? you cant return scraps and trimmings. On Items like hardwood,laminate and tiles You are charged for labor according to room size and not waste because you can return whole boxes of wood and even single tiles.
Posted by Bodashustatas on 2006-07-14:
The problem as I see it is that you know everything. Or not, this is a retailer! They have only been doing installations for 10 years or so. There is a lot to learn by everyone involved. Lowe's is very good at being a retailer. They have been doing that for more than 50 years! Maybe you should hire an installer who also has 50 years of experience, not 10!
Posted by nina09 on 2008-03-16:
I totally agree. Their customer service is terrible. They charged me $35 to come and measure my flooring. It has been a month and no one called. I visited the store to ask for a refund as i didnt want to wait anymore. They said someone would call soon and that they cannot refund the money. They wont refund the money nor come to measure???? it has been 2 months now.
Posted by installer1974 on 2010-05-17:
I do not work for Lowe's, yet I have been an installer for many years. All I can say is, you WILL be charged for materials handled. if you have an 11x15 room to carpet, and you order a 12x15 roll, be prepared to pay for the extra yardage as materials handled. If you want to go to the store, cut off that extra foot, dispose of it, and not have to fondle it hoping it doesn't destroy your new wallpaper, then you won't be charged for it. If you order some laminate that comes in 20 square foot boxes and you have 102 square feet, prepare to pay for 6 boxes at 120 feet and ask for the extra boards to keep. A company will not sell you a half box and keep the rest. Imagine going to Walmart for some cupcakes for your kids birthday party and saying we only need 22! Tough cupcakes, you have to buy 24 in two 1 dozen boxes, and you eat the extras. While I'm sure the store could have explained that to you a little better, it's still not fair to blame the store for a little overage as these products come (and have to be handled) in units. The list goes on and on, if you need 5 spark plugs replaced, the mechanic will charge you for 6. If you only want a single nike shoe because you have one leg, you're gonna have to buy the pair etc.
Posted by Pastlady on 2012-07-30:
Lowes flooring installation...BEWARE
Our family decided to install tile flooringin the section of our house that is built on concrete slab. We went to our local Lowes store and looked at flooring. We really liked the Rialto White 12x12 tile. Not knowing how to install tile , we asked Lowes to send one of their contractors out to measure our floor and give us an estimate. There was a $35.00 non-refundable estimate fee, that would be rolled into the job if we signed with Lowes. We were told that for installation, Lowes charges $5.97 per square foot. On Tuesday July 24, the measurer and installer, Walt H. came to measure. He was friendly and told us he was second generation in his company. This gave us confidence in his expertise. The next Thursday, 7-26 we went to the store to collect some samples of the tile, and while there were handed the estimate.
The amount of tile indicated as needed on the form was 805 square feet for tile, amounting to $1,762.95 for the tile.. The amount for the installation was $5.97 x 805, or $4,805.85. There were incedentals, like thinset and grout. The total was $6,807.64.
This estimate puzzled me greatly. The reason was that my husband and son measured the amount of flooring that we had, and the total they came up with was 663 square feet (another company had measured our floor and reported it was 680 square feet, at least in the ballpark). This was supposed to be an experienced professional doing the measuring, but the numbers were greatly different. I know that there is a percentage added to the amount of tile you get for waste. But adding the 10% extra for waste would only bring the total of tile needed to 725 square feet. We would not expect to purchase more that that with experienced, professional installers on the job. So they expected us to purchase 80 square feet we did not need. I know we could return this, but it would be stupid, and inconvienient.
Then there is the issue that in the estimate we got it stated that we would be charged the installation on the 805 square feet on the form, not the actual 663 square feet being installed. We were expected to pay to install phantom flooring.
So Lowes wanted us to buy a large amount of product we did not need, and then pay an installation fee on it, whether or not we needed it. This seems to be a nice arrangement. For the business. We would have paid around $1,000.00 more for the job than needed.
Even adding in a few square feet if we measured poorly, this seems to be padding the charge excessivly. When we first called Lowes and spoke to Jeff in flooring, he said they figure the footage according to the measurements they are given. So their measurements must have been close to that. When I asked why we were being charged for 805 square feet of installation, he said the installers are paid for every square foot of product that goes out the door (not the amount of square footage to be installed) ! I then Called Walt H who did the measurement. I asked why the square footage was so high, and told him what our figures were. He said his measurements were close to ours, and that we should call Lowes again, perhaps have a remeasure and have someone else install it, and quickly ended the call. I called Lowes again, and was told I should call the central office. I spoke to a Olivia, who took my complaint. Someone from the central office said the manager of the store would call me.The manager of the Lowes, Kim called me, and I spoke to her and told her the situation. She said she would look into it. I said I felt cheated, like someone tried to take advantage of us. Later, Mike from flooring called to ask if we would be using their installation service. I explained the situation to him, said I had no longer any trust in the integrity of Lowes, and would also try to get the tile elsewhere. I stated that there was something wrong with this, and I would be putting this infromation into a review to warn others. I also called the FTC. I also let the BBB know.
I also want my $ 35.00 measurement and estimate fee returned. I have no problem paying a fee when I know about it, but I do not like paying someone to try to rip me off. I will pursue this. The final thought is that we feel so insulted that someone in this process considered us so stupid and gullible that they could blatantly inflate the charges on our job. Do we look that ignorant? Or do they just do this to all their customers? Makes you think.
Our family decided to install tile flooringin the section of our house that is built on concrete slab. We went to our local Lowes store and looked at flooring. We really liked the Rialto White 12x12 tile. Not knowing how to install tile , we asked Lowes to send one of their contractors out to measure our floor and give us an estimate. There was a $35.00 non-refundable estimate fee, that would be rolled into the job if we signed with Lowes. We were told that for installation, Lowes charges $5.97 per square foot. On Tuesday July 24, the measurer and installer, Walt H. came to measure. He was friendly and told us he was second generation in his company. This gave us confidence in his expertise. The next Thursday, 7-26 we went to the store to collect some samples of the tile, and while there were handed the estimate.
The amount of tile indicated as needed on the form was 805 square feet for tile, amounting to $1,762.95 for the tile.. The amount for the installation was $5.97 x 805, or $4,805.85. There were incedentals, like thinset and grout. The total was $6,807.64.
This estimate puzzled me greatly. The reason was that my husband and son measured the amount of flooring that we had, and the total they came up with was 663 square feet (another company had measured our floor and reported it was 680 square feet, at least in the ballpark). This was supposed to be an experienced professional doing the measuring, but the numbers were greatly different. I know that there is a percentage added to the amount of tile you get for waste. But adding the 10% extra for waste would only bring the total of tile needed to 725 square feet. We would not expect to purchase more that that with experienced, professional installers on the job. So they expected us to purchase 80 square feet we did not need. I know we could return this, but it would be stupid, and inconvienient.
Then there is the issue that in the estimate we got it stated that we would be charged the installation on the 805 square feet on the form, not the actual 663 square feet being installed. We were expected to pay to install phantom flooring.
So Lowes wanted us to buy a large amount of product we did not need, and then pay an installation fee on it, whether or not we needed it. This seems to be a nice arrangement. For the business. We would have paid around $1,000.00 more for the job than needed.
Even adding in a few square feet if we measured poorly, this seems to be padding the charge excessivly. When we first called Lowes and spoke to Jeff in flooring, he said they figure the footage according to the measurements they are given. So their measurements must have been close to that. When I asked why we were being charged for 805 square feet of installation, he said the installers are paid for every square foot of product that goes out the door (not the amount of square footage to be installed) ! I then Called Walt H who did the measurement. I asked why the square footage was so high, and told him what our figures were. He said his measurements were close to ours, and that we should call Lowes again, perhaps have a remeasure and have someone else install it, and quickly ended the call. I called Lowes again, and was told I should call the central office. I spoke to a Olivia, who took my complaint. Someone from the central office said the manager of the store would call me.The manager of the Lowes, Kim called me, and I spoke to her and told her the situation. She said she would look into it. I said I felt cheated, like someone tried to take advantage of us. Later, Mike from flooring called to ask if we would be using their installation service. I explained the situation to him, said I had no longer any trust in the integrity of Lowes, and would also try to get the tile elsewhere. I stated that there was something wrong with this, and I would be putting this infromation into a review to warn others. I also called the FTC. I also let the BBB know.
I also want my $ 35.00 measurement and estimate fee returned. I have no problem paying a fee when I know about it, but I do not like paying someone to try to rip me off. I will pursue this. The final thought is that we feel so insulted that someone in this process considered us so stupid and gullible that they could blatantly inflate the charges on our job. Do we look that ignorant? Or do they just do this to all their customers? Makes you think.
Posted by miss g on 2012-11-17:
The 10% overage is to account for waste..meaning tiles that are cut, you loose approximately 10% to waste..the installer is handing it, cutting it..etc, therefore is paid for this..period. It is not phantom installation, or tile..it is waste from a tile that was cut.
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